Senator Ursula Stephens: Government has the will and intent about social inclusion

Interview by Mehmet Ozalp

The Rudd Government has won the 2007 Federal elections on values. Prime Minister Kevin Rudd is known as an ethical man and we are promised that the policies of the Labour Government will pass through the ethical lens. Social policies are the ones that will test this promise the most. It seems that the exclusionist policy of the Howard Government is being replaced by a more inclusive policy aptly named “Social Inclusion”. I have spoken to Honourable Senator Ursula Stephens, Parliamentary Secretary for Social Inclusion & Voluntary Sector reporting to the Prime Minister.

I am intrigued by your social inclusion policy. Even the phrase ‘Social Inclusion’ in your portfolio sounds promising. What is the scope of your portfolio?

This new government has a very clear intention that by developing what we are calling a social inclusion framework, we are going to make sure that people, who have not benefited from both the economic and social developments of Australia over the last decade or so are going to be included. We know that the previous government drove a very intolerant level of culture and a very intolerant level of those people who are living on the margin, whether they are poor or disabled or disadvantaged in some other way and our social inclusion approach to that is to stop demonising and victimising these people and actually empower them to re-engage in our society. It is a long term civil society and civic engagement commitment of this government.

How is social inclusion different to the social integration model that the previous government had in place?
Well, when you think about social integration, the previous government was about making everybody the same. I think our social inclusion perspective recognises and values diversity, particularly a cultural diversity. We don’t, as a nation, expect that we are going to homogenise Australia. We need to be able to respect and value cultural difference and actually treasure the values and benefits that we get from being exposed and interacting with other cultures. That’s a big difference. 

Does that mean social inclusion excludes assimilation?
We have a very definite approach. It is about people who are disadvantaged or excluded form economic or social or cultural activities in our society, so we are not thinking about assimilation of cultural values into an Australian amalgam. We are thinking about how we actually engage people in active citizenship in Australia and that includes people from new refugees, new arrivals, business migration, or people already living in Australia. We actually believe that we have to do a lot of work around the issue of religious tolerance and religious understanding.

I know that assimilation occurs by default in some cases. People assimilate willingly while some try to resist. Do you think a government should have a policy of encouraging assimilation?
Well, I think that what we need to do is to encourage people who come to our country to understand and abide by the laws of the country and in those terms we accept the people who come here, respect our laws and our cultural identity I suppose in many respects. So, that is a very important and subtle difference to actually assimilating for the sake of moving cultural identity. There is a place in a multicultural society like Australia that people can maintain the integrity of their culture and their religion, and live harmoniously with those who do not share that culture.

In that sense, how is your portfolio different to Laurie Ferguson’s multicultural portfolio and are there overlaps?
Of course, there is overlap on the issue of multiculturalism and the way in which we support and treat new arrivals to our country and of course, you as a second generation person from a Muslim country would understand that, for your parents now are getting perhaps a little bit older and starting to think about their retirement. There’s a lot of work that’s being done about the cultural aspects of services – the importance of culturally sensitive and appropriate aged care for example. So we actually had to start thinking about those issues. But my portfolio is a lot more than just about people from non-English speaking background. It’s about an anti-poverty strategy, it’s about caring for children who are in jobless households; actively intervening around child protection; and around indigenous Australians. It’s about thinking differently about how we are going to be a much more caring and inclusive society.

Would you agree that the Muslim community is excluded from the mainstream society?
I don’t think so. I think that we see many examples of Muslim communities and Muslim organisations that are playing a very important part and role in mainstream society. I think that the challenge that you have, as a champion for Muslim communities, is that we have a lot of stereotypes. We are dealing with the fall out of September 11 and stereotyping around that. We are also dealing with a society that is always looking for the scapegoat. As an Australian society we have an unfortunate history of actually bashing the last people in the door. So, a generation ago, it was the Vietnamese, but now new arrivals are mainly from Muslim countries and that’s a huge cultural shift for Australians, who live in a fairly isolated part of the world. We don’t have the exposure that you would have in Europe, for example, to the whole issue of interfaith and intercultural connections. So this level of integration will continue to occur over time. Your generation play such an important role and you have to be the champion for this. I know that is a huge responsibility for you.

I think you heard about the Islamic School application rejected by Camden Council. Establishing a school is actually engaging with the system. The school has to follow the Board of Studies curriculum, teach Australian history for example. Muslims are thinking: if we’re not allowed to do positive things, what do people really want from us. We want to be included, but society is not letting us. There’s a feeling of a no-win situation. What is your view on this and how can we overcome this perception?

Well, I was disappointed, very, very disappointed by the way in which the debate generated into such level of intolerance, of religious intolerance, I thought it really didn’t demonstrate any sensitivity at all on the part of those protagonists in that community. You are absolutely right. The way in which we actually can embrace each other is through the institutional arrangements. It takes a long time for that cultural change in a community on the Western part of Sydney where people have been very comfortable in that environment for a long time and people don’t like change, but the reality is that the world is changing. If we don’t actually work together to resolve some of these issues and we don’t actually acknowledge the benefits of institutional investment then we are going to see the radical response because people will be angry and when they get angry they get demonstrative and then they get violent. It escalates the whole process and takes the debate back a decade or so. So my advice to you is to persist because change will occur through example and the fantastic things that I now are happening like the Muslim school that is billeting one hundred pilgrims for the World Youth Day. These kinds of things really demonstrate to communities that there is an interfaith respect and dialogue and that there is a moderate Muslim community and that’s the mainstream. The radical nonsense that we hear is not who really Australian Muslims are.

Certainly Australian Muslims should persist and not give up. Clearly there is a barrier for Muslims to be socially included. Do you feel that your government and especially you in your portfolio have a role to play?
Well, I think that we are tackling this on a lot of fronts. First of all there had to be the leadership and I am very confident that the Prime Minister has this issue fairly high on his mind. He wants a nation where everyone is included and that includes people from all walks of life and from all countries coming into Australia so the challenge for us as a government is to lead by example, by being inclusive, by engaging with the Muslim community and having representatives of your organisations and your institutions on our reference studies. We need to have you advising us as part and parcel of our policy development. We have to make sure that our policies and programs take into account the views of the Muslim community. This is part and parcel of a new government that has a different agenda and that is entrenched upon changing the landscape of Australian society and we will do it.

That is very encouraging.
I also want to add that when I was in Turkey, I was really impressed by the way the Muslim religion is strong and vibrant in a secular country and the Muslim culture there drives much of the activity in Turkey. In this instance, you are not the strangers in your own land, but you are the new comers so with that comes many challenges for you. Yet I could see when I was in Turkey, how having had such a strong culture of Islam there and all of those religious institutions that were there, but yet there was a secular government. It shows that it is possible and of course it is possible if there is good will and intent and I think that this government has good will and intent.

You mentioned a number of times that Muslims are ‘new’ to this country. Firstly, the majority of Muslims have been here for four decades. Forty years in Australian’s 220 year history is a fair chunk of that history. When do Muslims stop being ‘new’? Secondly, assuming that there are no new arrivals, will the exclusionist treatment of Muslims continue?
When I said that I meant as in the newer wave of immigration mainly post World War II. We know that there are hundreds of millions of refugees in the world and we know that the pressures around the world are building and Australia will have a responsibility to take more. We know where they are coming from and most are from very distressed nations in Africa. So when I said to you about being new in the sense I was talking about post World War II and post Vietnam War. It really is about the critical mass of Muslim Australians. You are more visible than you used to be and it is about us learning to understand and tolerate difference, and as a society it’s an imperative for us. If we don’t do it, it’s going to create fractures in our society.